Weekly Bunshun: Sawako Agawa Interview, May 16, 2024
Fukiko Aoki, Writer and Journalist
Agawa: You usually live in New York, but it’s been a while since you returned to Japan, hasn’t it?
Aoki: I came back last October too. Before, I had to return to America after about two weeks, but now I can stay longer.
Agawa: I wrote the blurb for your latest book, Alone Again (pub: Shinchosha). It’s an epic love story. This is the first time you’ve written so comprehensively about your life with your husband, Pete Hamill, who passed away in 2020, isn’t it?
Aoki: Yes, it’s all new writing.
Agawa: Did you start writing it after he passed away?
Aoki: About two years after he passed away, my editor suggested I write about Pete. He said it didn’t have to be a thick book, just something like an essay about the two of us. I started writing around February last year and finished by October.
Agawa: That’s quite quick. Writing non-fiction is your specialty, but this book has a very different touch, doesn’t it?
Aoki: The first draft I wrote was immediately dismissed as “non-fiction” .
Agawa: You couldn’t shake your non-fiction habits?
Aoki: Exactly. I ended up writing about Pete’s background, but they told me that’s not what they wanted. They wanted me to write more about the two of us, like a memoir.
Agawa: I’m amazed at how well you remember all the details. Do you usually keep a diary or notes?
Aoki: I had diary-like notes, but they were mostly complaints. I found notebooks I wrote during travels, which helped me remember a lot.
Agawa: How long were you together from when you met?
Aoki: We met on March 6, 1984, so it was 36 years. We were married for 33 years and three months.
Agawa: You remember the dates perfectly. For those who don’t know Pete Hamill, he was a globally famous journalist but is particularly known in Japan as the author of The Yellow Handkerchief of Happiness.
Aoki: Yes, it was originally a very short story, but director Yoji Yamada turned it into a great film. At that time, his short story collection New York Sketchbook was also published in Japan and sold quite well.
Agawa: He was a highly popular columnist in the 60s in America. You interviewed him at the Palace Hotel in Marunouchi in 1984. At that time, you were already a non-fiction writer.
Aoki: Yes, I had published Goodbye with a Leica and Looking for Amelia and had a column in the magazine Shokun! where I interviewed authors of new books. Pete was one of my interviewees.
Agawa: There was an earthquake during the interview, and Pete later said, “The earth moved” about that day. It was a truly impactful meeting.
Aoki: I was so focused on conducting the interview in English that I didn’t notice much else.
Agawa: You did the interview alone, without an interpreter?
Aoki: Yes, I memorized a lot of questions in English. I relied on the recorded tape and asked friends to help me with parts I didn’t understand later.
Agawa: You were face-to-face for the interview, right? The editor really left you on your own.
Aoki: Yes, I set up the appointment myself, took the photos, did everything. The editor from Bunshun didn’t do anything.
Agawa: That’s some harsh treatment you received from Bunshun. But it’s impressive you managed it all!
Aoki: Well, I couldn’t catch everything he said. He kept saying “haiku, haiku” and I couldn’t figure out what he meant until later when I realized he was talking about Japanese haiku. I was amazed that he knew about haiku.
Agawa: You received a letter from Pete after the interview, didn’t you?
Aoki: Yes, it was a surprise. He wrote, “Make sure to contact me when you come to New York”.
Agawa: That must have made you happy?
Aoki: Yes, of course.
Agawa: By the way, you are the daughter of the owner of the publisher Aoki Shoten in Jimbocho, right?
Aoki: Yes. My father used to work for Shufu no Tomo (Women’s Friend) Publishing and was a reporter. He traveled to Manchuria for two months with a Leica camera to create the Manchurian edition of Shufu no Tomo.
Agawa: There was a Manchurian edition?
Aoki: Apparently so. After the war, he bought a 60-tsubo plot in Jimbocho, where I was born
Agawa: Your father was liberal in his views, right? Did his ideas and way of life influence you?
Aoki: I think so. I wanted to be a journalist since high school. But it was just a vague idea. I played basketball throughout junior high, high school, and university, so I didn’t have much time to read.
Agawa: You were a sporty girl.
Aoki: After graduating from university, I couldn’t find a job. My sister’s acquaintance introduced me to “Review Japan,” the Tokyo branch of MCA Music, which held music copyrights. One day, they received a record of Alone Again and I fell in love with it. The president told me to try promoting it, so I took the 45-rpm record to late-night radio shows to pitch them. That’s how I met people like Kame-san (Akinobu Kamebuchi) and Kotaro (Kotaro Yamamoto). That was my real start in the working world.
Agawa: You started in the music industry?
Aoki: Yes. Music was fascinating. “Review Japan” had exclusive artists like Seri Ishikawa. She sang the theme song for the movie “August in the Water,” and it was expected to sell well, but there weren’t any companies back then to manage artists like her.
Agawa: She wasn’t an idol or a folk singer, a unique presence.
Aoki: At one point, she was under a talent agency, but she escaped on the bullet train. Then the president told me to manage her for a while, so I became her manager for some time.
Agawa: Wow! An unexpected career.
Aoki: I took her to movie theaters with karaoke to sing the theme song before the movie started.
Agawa: At the movie theater? The audience must have been shocked.
Aoki: We did some crazy things. It was only for a short time. After that, I moved to “Guts,” a music magazine. At that time, new music artists rejected mainstream media but allowed interviews with “Guts.” That’s how I got to know Yuming (Yumi Matsutoya) from her early days with her first albumn “Hikoukigumo.”
Agawa: Wait a minute. I came here to talk about Pete Hamill, but your career is incredible!
Aoki: In 1976, Yuming and Masataka Matsutoya got married, and their wedding reception was attended by many people from music world. There was Takuro Yoshida, Hiroshi Kamayatsu, and Toshiba’s director, Kazunaga Nitta. When the bride and groom came to light the candles at our table, Yuming asked, “Aoki-san, would you like to join us on our honeymoon?” Kamayatsu-san overheard and said, “Let’s all go together.”
Agawa: No way.
Aoki: Really, four of us went. On the first day, we gave them privacy, but joined them on the second day in Atami. Yuming talked about it on Radio Show “All Night Nippon.” It was such a fun time.
Agawa: You were at the top of the new music scene.
Aoki: I left Guts after two years and then moved to Weekly Playboy as a music reporter. At that time, Playboy had many freelance writers, including Shinichi Sano.
Agawa: All the names you mention are legendary!
Aoki: I got free records and attended concerts. It was such a fun job, but I quit right before I turned 30. I guess the music world wasn’t really fit me.
Agawa: How so? You were so successful.
Aoki: I felt more comfortable at home in publishing. After leaving Playboy, I spent a few months in Los Angeles, where I saw many Vietnam veterans.
Agawa: Like disabled veterans?
Aoki: Yes. After returning to Tokyo, I couldn’t stop thinking about Vietnam, so I started researching at the library. That’s when I learned about Kyoichi Sawada, a photographer who won the Pulitzer Prize for his Vietnam War photos. I thought his story would make a great book.
Agawa: So, your few months in LA led to your debut work, Goodbye with a Leica. You hadn’t written non-fiction other than music until then, right?
Aoki: No, but I had experience interviewing and writing, so I thought I could do it.
Agawa: Did you have a publisher in mind?
Aoki: No, I just started the interviews. The people I interviewed were kind and shared stories about Sawada. Eventually, I got an article titled The Day Sawada Was Shot published in Bungei Shunju.
Agawa: A hundred pages right off the bat! A sensational debut.
Aoki: That manuscript became later the book Goodbye with a Leica. It sold more than 50,000 copies.
Agawa: The title is lovely, like a song lyric.
Aoki: I only planned to write that one book, so I was stuck afterward. I thought I’d research Amelia Earhart from a Japanese perspective, which became my second book, Looking for Amelia, but it didn’t sell at all. I ran out of money, and that’s when the offer for Newsweek Japan came.
Agawa: Where did that offer come from?
Aoki: During my research on Kyoichi Sawada, I met with several former Vietnam bureau chiefs of the Mainichi Shimbun. One of them, Kasumi Kitabatake, who was then an editorial writer, contacted me on March 7, the day after my interview with Pete, to discuss it.
Agawa: A turbulent March.
Aoki: He decided to work for launch Newsweek Japan and asked if I would work in New York.
Agawa: They picked you.
Aoki: Yes, but I wanted to keep writing books, so I was conflicted. Moving to New York meant I wouldn’t have time to write, but I also wanted to live there. In the end, I decided to take the chance to work at the forefront of American journalism.
Agawa: It must have been tough. You had to hire local staff too.
Aoki: It was hard. The launch was supposed to be soon, but it took a year and a half. The editing was done in Tokyo, and I was just sending content from New York. I didn’t get to write articles; it was just management, which wasn’t interesting.
Agawa: You’re blunt. While doing that uninteresting job, you reconnected with Pete and your relationship blossomed.
Aoki: Yes, but as I wrote in the book, he would disappear with other women.
Agawa: He wasn’t seeing just one person? He was quite popular.
Aoki: He was so busy with work that he couldn’t manage his relationships and went silent several times. Later, he wrote to me, we reconciled, and eventually got married.
Agawa: You thought it was over, but then you got married. After marriage, he never betrayed you?
Aoki: No, he became a good husband. He kept his promise of loyalty because he knew I wouldn’t marry him otherwise.
Agawa: Did you have any hesitation or worries about marrying an American?
Aoki: Hardly any. I probably wouldn’t have matched well with Japanese men. I couldn’t be the traditional good wife and wise mother.
Agawa: But from reading your book, I thought your approach to love was quite traditional, like a yamato nadeshiko (an ideal Japanese woman).
Aoki: Really?
Agawa: When Pete fell ill, you immediately returned from Japan, and you dedicated almost ten years to his care after he was diagnosed with diabetes. During the pandemic, you even risked your health to visit him in the hospital. You gave your all.
Aoki: Like with writing, I can’t be satisfied unless I do things thoroughly.
Agawa: Did Pete help you with your books and non-fiction series after you got married?
Aoki: I relied on him. When I wanted to interview someone in America, writing “Pete Hamill’s wife” helped me get meetings.
Agawa: So you had Pete’s influence. Did he also give you writing advice?
Aoki: Yes. When I asked his opinion on my drafts, he gave great suggestions. He read a vast number of books, both fiction and academic papers. He had a genius for grasping the essence of things. I think his perspective greatly influenced my writing.
Agawa: With that influence from Pete, how do you see America now?
Aoki: I can’t believe the country has become so divided. There used to be room for dialogue between conservatives and liberals, but not anymore.
Agawa: Was it since Trump became president?
Aoki: Yes, since Trump. It feels like democracy is wearing out. With immigration, I think there should be some selection in this global era, but Democrats can’t say that. Meanwhile, Trump talks about building walls at the border, and there’s no constructive discussion. The whole country is fatigued, and the meaning of democracy is changing.
Agawa: What would happen if Trump gets re-elected?
Aoki: It’s unpredictable, but Biden isn’t much better...
Agawa: He seems frail... Isn’t there anyone else?
Aoki: There are good young politicians in the Democratic Party.
Agawa: Why can’t they step forward? How is New York recently?
Aoki: The economy is good, but crime is increasing. During the pandemic, there was backlash against Asians, and since then, crime has surged, with armed robberies at famous stores.
Agawa: Something seems to have exploded.
Aoki: Maybe it’s desperation. Being a good citizen isn’t seen as a virtue anymore.
Agawa: Do you plan to stay in America?
Aoki: I’m not sure. I’d like to have a place in Tokyo, but Japan’s village-like society might not suit me.
Agawa: There’s a culture of observing and adjusting to others, unlike America, where everything is bluntly stated, which can also be hurtful.
Aoki: Surprisingly, it’s not. You just argue it out. In this book, I even yelled at doctors. When you can’t get your point across, sometimes you have to be loud. It’s freeing.
Agawa: When Pete was in cardiac arrest, and the doctor said he wouldn’t wake up, you didn’t give up.
Aoki: I thought, I won’t be fooled. You can’t blindly trust doctors. The wife knows her husband best. You have to think for yourself.
Agawa: But you didn’t know about the illness.
Aoki: No, but I understood his condition. Every patient is different, even with the same illness.
Agawa: Did you have a feeling he wouldn’t pass away then?
Aoki: Yes, I felt he was still there. I didn’t think he would die. Maybe I’m just positive, but I always try to see things in a good light.
Agawa: But he recovered and lived for six more years, which is amazing. Do you still feel the loss of Pete?
Aoki: Of course. You have to live with the sadness until you die. Writing a book doesn’t make it go away.
Agawa: Thank you for sharing so much today. I came to hear about Pete, but your life story was fascinating. For the love story with Pete, please read “Alone Again.”